It doesn’t need a turbo because if it did the WRX and STI will lose in sales.

Tesla driver: hold my beer.

What are the chances we'll see a turbo version... I mean, its already on the ascent..

The real question is, can you spin the ascent engine up to 7500rpm in a reasonably reliable way?

I'm not sure that the Toyota Supra does exist. The BMW Z4 exists.

Had a 2015 FR-S for 4 years, fun car. Did the UEL header and tune to wake it up , must do mods for these cars! Traded it in for a 2019 ND2 Miata. Although power numbers are similar the Miata feels faster. Not tempted to do any mods beyond the Borla axle back I added which is a good thing because the aftermarket has yet to come out with any type of FI for this car. Problems cracking the computer I’ve heard.

of course it does, it is gutless!!!

I get the fact that the young guys want the turbos -- and bells and whistles and gadgetry -- but at 50 I drive my cars to 200k and I LOATHE turbos. Many more problems and no longevity without expensive bills. The Ascent is Subies least reliable car...

Simp

Love this video! *thumbs up

It's a good thing you drew pictures

Good points but I wish they would offer two engine options. The 2.4L Boxer and the WRX turbo

Unfair: Since the Ascent seems to have Atkinson cycle characteristics, there's good chance to be more efficient (economical) & somehow more pleasant on normal driving (with plenty of torque)

Would rather the flat 6 subaru engine as an option than a turbo. I like turbo subarus, but having now helped with 2 complete engine rebuilds for turbo subarus, I am convinced that the stock subaru turbos are too prone to early failure.

I know I know, lots of people would hate it, most would hate because they couldn't afford to... but I would just 2JZ swap the new one anyway :P

I’m a Subaru tech and I wish they used the direct/port system on all their engines. These direct engines can cause problems without cleaning the valves

*Subaru would like to know your location*

I know this is Engineering Explained, but I feel you should discuss a manufacturer's desire to not cannibalize their other products. Chevy has done this for years with their oh-so-beloved Corvette.

Turbo or additional displacement? Basically, it comes down to weight and cost: the two enemies of an entry-level sports car. Well-said, Jason.

They just don't want something cheaper that will be faster then an STI, that's why there is no turbo.

It need to be v6

the only people that are mad are people that wanna tune the car and with a turbo you get alot better number

BRZ+ez30= perfection

But..will it have the subie rumble??

Great breakdown and simplification of topics which have the potential to get very laborious when teaching. Subscribed. One Item to note, as others have mentioned in comments, I believe the Port and Direct injectors' color coding needs to be swapped on the Intake and Cylinder locations to be accurate.

umm....15% more felt torque is a big deal. And you glanced at it, but tuning the turbo engine would be a huge deal to anyone whos buying a sport car.

And usually most of turbo engines have narrower powerband. And less linear.

Even the first gens aren’t slow, they have 200hp......but weigh 2700 (500lbs lighter than a Focus) they are quick anyone saying they are slow have never driven one, I’ve beaten a 2013 Camaro v6 on 2 50 rolls (3rd gear) a 2.0 turbo genesis and multiple sedans these cars would all beat me if hp was the only factor, if that was the case a hayabusa would be slower than a mustang gt and by the way this isn’t me saying the FRS is the fastest but anyone that actually thinks this car is slow is out of touch with what a slow car is, don’t just look at hp

I am pretty sure that if Subaru put this engine in the BRZ, they would bump up the redline. This engine is not going into a performance oriented vehicle, so no need to stress out the engine more than you need to.

“Brz is not a sports car cause 200hp” But everybody claims cars like the s2000, Miata, 240sx, Rx7. Etc are yet those cars have less than 300hp. Stfuuuu

Those wheels are the closest you are going to get to a GR Yaris in America for about 25 years.

Your are Champion

2012 gt86 with an hks

Nah they should of added a turbo cuz you can always turn up the boost to get more hp.I mean look at the new Supra. You can do a tune and down pipe and get literally 200 more hp.

I have a GT86. I love it to death, but I gotta be honest yeah it's slow. ALL they needed to do with the new BRZ was fit a supercharger, oil cooler and a tune to give the new car a healthy power boost. Surely this would've been cheaper than inventing a new engine, as they did with this new 2.4L NA motor...

~ 8.30... No answer = Selling too fast to develop it properly. Obviously some physical limitation somewhere in the design (I would venture a guess at the inlet manifold).

Technically, D-4S gives you four injection options: Port, direct, both and...neither!

Dude drawn power graphs haha. Love this channel. Learn so much

People think turbos always make cars faster, totally wrong

If you appreciate car control, you appreciate fine throttle response. 🧐

Guys why can you dump the clutch in neutral with no problem (manual trans)???

Colors reversed on Port & direct injectors in diagram. Nice explanation

Common complaint was not lack of power. It was and is still a horrible engine design. The engine must be dropped jusg to charge the plugs and this is just one of the myriad of bad things.

The reason why is more simplistic mean that my friend. The reason why is the Supra. Why would Toyota create such closely marketed competition?

so how come a 2005 sti puts 300+ hp (380 crank) to the wheels and weighs the same.. BRZ owners SAD

there is no logical reason adding the turbo to the brz would reduce the rpm limit which debunks the entire argument.

Side profile looks fantastic, the front looks OK but I hate the rear. Looks like they stole them off of a Honda

ok but imma just turbo this one. However 380 in my 13 has kept it pretty competitive.

But you're assuming they would keep the same transmissions with the engines. Why not use the Ascent engine with the BRZ transmission? Then your wheel torque improvement would remain at 50%.

Really awesome episode Jason! I'll be buying the GR 86 if it's hopefully released in the UK but who knows as Subaru have already confirmed we're not getting the new BRZ :'(

Your title... SMH, NO CAR "NEEDS" A TURBO!

Woah, woah, woah. Love your videos, but why are you assuming that the Assent engine is not capable of the same 7,500 RPM redline as the BRZ 2.4L? Did they put weaker parts in the turbo motor? doubt it. Do they have the ECU and possibly cam tuned to create more low end torque? Most likely. If the Turbo motor was engineered for the BRZ I would bet my last dollar it would make more horsepower, have a redline near 7,500 RPM and possibly give up some low end torque. I'm with you thought that as long as they make the WRX and Supra, the BRZ should remain NA. That said it is too expensive. Thumbs up for the video.

skifree

Dag siden

It's not actually that turbo motors "cannot hit the same rpm", but rather a turbo motor like the ascent will most likely have absolutely no point to go up to 7500rpm. Not so much the part materials or the ecu. Rather, it's almost always a question of turbo sizing and drivability. More rpm means more airflow required, which means you need a bigger turbo to supply the engine at this hypothetical top end. The downside is that, changing the the turbo for higher top end performance almost always dramatically affects low end. You will get more turbo lag, it will have a more noticeable boost threshold. In general, it will feel more anemic on the low end. Simply put, a bigger turbo capable of keeping up with an engine at the top end means, your engine cannot supply it the exhaust gasses the turbo needs while at the bottom end. Which is why "a turbo motor for the brz" doesn't really negate the downsides. Putting in a "high rpm turbo setup" also implies having the turbo-lag and anemic power associated with "old school turbos". The higher the rpm you push, the less linear the power delivery is going to be. In fact think about turbojet engines on planes. They are the "high flow turbo concept" taken to the extreme (where you even remove the piston part of the engine and just do combustion between the compressor and turbine stages). But their throttle response is measures in multiple SECONDS. It just means that this tradeoff isn't something simple to be solved with ecu tuning...It's fundamental to how a turbo concept operates, no amount of money can get you both top end airflow while having no tradeoffs when engine output is low.

Jason, I also think this could be part of the team up Subaru is doing with Toyota in implementing Toyota's design and engineering principles such as reliability over performance. I also suspect this is why they discontinued the Forester XT with a 2.0 turbo (which I really love) in exchange for a more beefier but slower 2.5 engine. I kinda feel sad about this change, but at the same time I look forward to a future Subaru with great high quality cars.

Jason is being nice with that 2020 torque dip, it use to drive me nuts in my old FR-S.

If it came with a turbo then what’s the point in the 2 L supra

The car has got quite ugly and different from the original FT86 and I'd never buy it, so who cares if it has turbo? However, in general, every thing works better with turbo. So even with all that Physics you're wrong. Turbo is always better.

7.20 had me laughing

It looks so ugly now why did they have to change the look.

Interesting

buying a sports car in 2021 to get spanked at every traffic light by sedans and pickup trucks is tough

Freddie Castro

Dag siden

Yea ugly cars... rather have a nice car with mid 5 second 0-60 than a fast ugly ass car..

I think the Direct and the Port were swapped: red should be Port

it doesnt need one, BUT its more fun if it had one!

Disappointed brz fans: pls maybe more hp next year? Sti owners: first time?

My 1991 subaru svx has 228hp! This is 2021 Get with the times! Ignoring the fact that ive exceeded 150mph with it...

I really like the fact that they kept it NA.

i'll never own another subaru with a boxer engine. whiteboard or not, it's poorly designed. meh. all i hear is blah blah blah blown head gasket and oil consumption issues.

every engine is better with boost

The BRZ should be turbocharged.

Yes it does.

If the new Z has 400hp and isn't priced ridiculously, the BRZ will be overshadowed quite a bit.

If this car will hit 60mph in second gear its not going to be a very involving and fun car to drive. Going fast 0-60mph is not the point of this car.

The car has great potential, i've had the opportunity to track the previous model, but that's still a pathetically underpowered engine... not impressed. No matter how you do the math, this is still underpowered and a detriment to the car.

Basically, for the same engine, the number of revolutions it does matters, as well as the force applied. If you are selling a production car, it needs to last through the warranty, so redlining a thing at 6000 versus redlining a thing at 7500 means the thing with less power can redline higher. Because the thing with less power will be slower and spend less time redlining. It's not about peak performance in production cars. I am talking about street performance, whereas most car manufacturers will laugh at your warranty if you obviously race the thing. Maybe a reason for not putting a manual in the Supra.

I've tested an earlier model Scion FRS. The handling/cornering was there. The power lacked SIGNIFICANTLY!

Everything needs a turbo my friend especially a BRZ

Not even 100hp/L, subaru engines are garbage, and turboing them results in thrown rods even with only 8psi on a standard wrx sized turbo. Rubbish, don't buy brand new but 2nd hand until they make turbo or proper hp/l motors. I'll take the yaris GR instead of these shitboxes

The new BRZ has the front end of a Viper, the rear end of an NSX and the side profile of a Mustang GT. I love it btw!

Jesus Christ this was bad. Bro it's a people hauling econo car vs a sports car. You're comparing gear ratios. Of course they are geared differently. That was a lot of bs math on your boards that Subaru has already provided us. Seriously wtf was this?

When FRS owners call their call a GT86. 👀 Hold up let me call my Nissan Sentra a skyline real quick

New BRZ doesn't need a turbo? Yeahhhhhh ...... ok keep telling yourself that

Laughable

But turbo go stututu

Great analysis. Traded my 2019 86 bc of low power and that trq dip. Annoying. Otherwise, loved the car!

People will be swapping in the engine from the Ascent, I guarantee it.

glowstickles

4 timer siden

@Antonio Paventi if a hellcat engine can fit in a miata. Someone will figure out a way.

Antonio Paventi

11 timer siden

Will it fit?

I really doubt that Subaru would put the turbo motor with a 87octane tune or without at least a 500rpm bump to redline. So if Subaru did what a lot of enthusiasts wanted not only would the motor have made close to 300HP and TQ it would have had more aggressive gearing. Yes, another 30-40 lbs in weight for the extra Turbo stuff is granted, but could have been mostly mitigated by Subaru or in aftermarket with a Lithium ion battery.

NA engines are more reliable too. This was a very cool video thanks!

I can't agree. First, and most importantly, a turbocharged engine is less effected by atmospheric conditions. Second, it's a SPORTS CAR, it shouldn't live in fear of toyota camrys and accord 2.0t. You can make a graph of cost cutting features that make this a more affordable car, but is it really that hard to mass produce a turbocharged engine?

The brz line desperately needs FI, can’t really justify dropping 30k on a 200+ hp “sports car”.

dallatorretdu

Dag siden

especially since for 35K you get a 310hp sedan (at least in EU)

Still garbage

13.5?? smh Subaru makin it real hard for people who want a turbo

Thanks Jason for the video. It’s always cool going into engine specs. I really want to become an automotive engineer. Would you have any tips where to start or go?

I’d love if Toyota would take their variant and put in that turbo 3 cylinder that’s in the Yaris GR.

Sheldon Davis

Dag siden

That Engine won’t have the low center of gravity that the manufacturer wants.

whyyyyyyyyyyy jason? why do you hate turbo? :(

Nobody cares about this. Bring back the Baja.

I would much rather them have gone with the 3.5 V6 that Toyota and Lexus use. More power, more torque, high redline, better sound, and better reliability.

Every 16 year old needs to stop buying this car. It’s never been in a fast and furious movie and it’s not a sports car. Nobody sees a brz or frs and thinks “wow”. There are mini vans faster than the brz.

Throttle response and precision, the end

Do not slap a turbo on this thing, unless you lower the compression ratio...I saw so many blown up s2000s growing up...lol

CarStreetAndTrackforMe

2 dager siden

Exactly 💯 why aren't people talking about this more!?! Lmao trying to make a N/A become F.I is not worth all the bs unless you have tons of time, money and resources lol

The higher torqe than power increase suggests a worse high rev range, as in the torque dies of at higher rpm more than before. I always prefer a lower torque, higher rpm engine. It's a sports car not a Ford mondeo, I don't care about low end torque when I can just shift into a lower gear and drive properly

I've never enjoyed the way any turbo car drives. It's the car equivalent of a high ping in online gaming.